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Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 21 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 528
Revamping control line scheme

Since we're planning to replace the old-style (and barely functional) OEM curved traveler over the upcoming off-season, we're looking into revamping the other control line arrangements as well on our Mk I. We've always handled sail-raising / dousing and reefing from the mast, in part because the existing deck hardware created way too much friction to operate the halyards from the cockpit (and there was no hardware leading the reefing lines to the cockpit.)

It seems to me that part of the problem is that the OEM organizers lack ball bearings, and also require a 90 degree bend. My thinking is that installing new high quality organizers, located further aft so that the lines make a much shallower turn, will reduce the friction significantly.

Attached is an overhead photo of the current deck arrangement, on which I've marked the proposed alignments of control lines. Wondering if any of you have done something similar, and if so, how did it work out? Photos and other info (hardware brands, etc) would be great ....

I see from his excellent photo archive that Tom Soko did something like this on Julandra (and, among other things, moved the winches, as we must do, since the current stupid arrangement means we can only crank half a turn at a time because of the dodger), but I haven't seen any pictures of the configurations on the coach roof (forward of the dodger).

Thanking you all in advance for your wisdom (or wisecracks!).

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

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Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

Nimue's picture
Nimue
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 429

I put the cabintop winch inboard just a few inches from the companionway. Winch handles spin easily. Actually I left the OEM one-speed mainsheet winch but dedicated it to the spinnaker pole lift, and added a proper two-speed winch inboard. A singlespeed winch is sort of OK with reduced throw on the handle, as you can ratchet it, but a two speed needs proper clearance.

My boat never had any deck organizers from the factory, everything was handled on the mast. I have only bothered to bring the spinnaker lines aft, but those lines go through individual cheek blocks, as opposed to a single organizer, and are basically as close the companionway hood as I could mount them. The angles are very shallow indeed.

Think about how you use the boat - genoa halyard does not need to come to the cockpit on a boat that uses furling, especially since, if it is always hoisted, there is always a huge amount of line to stow.

Main halyard could be led back IF the reef lines are too, but your are able to 'put your back into it' a lot better at the mast, regardless of how much friction you encounter. I left mine forward.

Will have to see if I have pictures somewhere.

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Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Nimue's picture
Nimue
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 429

This one shows, if you look close on the stbd side, the spin halyard (black) going inside the traveller mounts, and the spin pole lift (green) going outside in the original mainsheet leads. Both about the least angle I could manage.

Note that I did remove the wood hatch slides from my boat, mostly because I did not want to maintain them but also to clear more room for lines.

The two clutches on the side of the mast are the genoa (blue) and main (white) halyards.

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Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 21 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 528

Thanks, Jason, and for the picture as well -- although I must admit I'm particularly taken by the snow-covered mountains in the background!

Yes, we don't plan to run the jib halyard back (since we have a furler); we use an A-spinnaker, with no pole, and for that we need to be up on the foredeck anyway to deal with the sock and so forth, so I'll probably leave the halyard for that where it is on the mast (where I installed a rope clutch), although I have run the tack line back to the cockpit.

But what I'm looking for is the ability to reef the main during heavy weather without having to go forward, thus the need to run the main halyard and reefing lines to the cockpit without too much friction.

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Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

Nimue's picture
Nimue
Last seen: 4 years 7 months ago
Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 429

The winch I added aft for that spin halyard is just the one that was orginally on the stbd side of the mast. If you wanted the main halyard and reef lines aft that could be accomplished the same way depending on how things are laid out on your boat.

One thing I have noted in past is that my 1983 boat has the handrails a couple inches further inboard than say a 1985 boat, which reduces the amount of space to lead lines aft, hence the need to go inside the traveller support.

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Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
BudStreet
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 9/4/09
Posts: 1127

I bought a floating winch handle that is shorter than our regular handles, it will do a full turn under the dodger and still has enough leverage to do whatever I needed it to do. It is a Lewmar Titan 8" cost 50 bucks and solved a lot of problems.

Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 21 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 528

bstreet;19795 wrote:

I bought a floating winch handle that is shorter than our regular handles, it will do a full turn under the dodger and still has enough leverage to do whatever I needed it to do. It is a Lewmar Titan 8" cost 50 bucks and solved a lot of problems.

Yes, but on our older Mk I boats that won't help because the winches are right up against the side of the dodger. Not the smartest design, but apparently not unusual on boats of that vintage, according to Nigel Calder.

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Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

Wavelength's picture
Wavelength
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 9/28/11
Posts: 166

I am working through this process as well this winter. For some base ideas for a layout I am using the MKII layout found on page 30 of the owners manual. This can be found in the technotes.

To create a better direction on the line I am considering drilling through the base of the traveller and inserting a tube of some sort for the line to feed through. I am going to bring the deck organizers as far back as possible, I have replaced them with good ball-bearing ones but there is still too much load and friction created with the 90 turn the lines make.

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Ross & Joanne Wavelength Saint John NB RKYC C36 #658 TR 1987
Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 21 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 528

    Thought I'd circle back and report on the outcome of this project, which took place over the past winter (but didn't get around to photographing until now).  In addition to relocating all the control lines so that we could operate all of them from the cockpit, we replaced the OEM curved (and barely functional) traveller with the Garhauer (which works great), and added a Dutchman furling system (necessitating the addition of a masthead-controlled topping lift run over the spare sheave at the masthead and run down inside the mast and aft to the cockpit).

    Attached are some pictures of the system we've been using this season.  Moving the original organizers aft somewhat so that the turning angles were shallower (and replacing the original blocks  with ball-bearing upgrades from Garhauer) definitely helped (we can now raise the main from the cockpit, although we ended up having to add a small line to help pull the mainsail fully down -- maybe we need to upgrade to ball bearing sheaves at the masthead).

    The first two pictures show an overhead view of the control lines rerouted on the cabin roof (with labels).

    The next two show the new traveller from Garhauer (note the way we arranged the control lines for it; they leave the traveller and go slightly forward and then turn under the traveller and dodger into the cockpit, worked with Guido on that one); and lastly the control lines in the cockpit.  This is a dream to use compared to the original.

    In the last two one can see that -- copying Tom Soko's modifications to Julandra -- we moved the winches inboard so that we can rotate the handles fully without getting stopped by the dodger (later model C36s didn't have this problem!), and added new rope clutches and organizers.

  The lines one sees in photo #5 are as follows (from left to right):
 - Downhaul (small blue line)
 - Traveller (black line)
 - 2nd Reef Clew (heavy blue line)
 - 2d Reef Tack (green line)
 - Cunningham (small purple line)
 - Mainsheet (white with blue flecks)
 - Vang (red with white flecks)
 - Main Halyard (white with green flecks)

The lines seen in photo #6 are (from left to right):
 - Gennacker tack line (white with green flecks)
 - Jib Halyard (white with red flecks)
 - Topping lift (white with blue flecks)
 - 1st Reef Tack (green line)
 - 1st Reef Clew (blue)
 - Traveller (white)

 

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Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

ScottishDuncan
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 8/5/14
Posts: 56

Nice job!

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Duncan McNeill
1984 Catalina 36 #178
standard rig fin keel M25
Channel Islands
ScottishDuncan
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 8/5/14
Posts: 56

Nice job!

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Duncan McNeill
1984 Catalina 36 #178
standard rig fin keel M25
Channel Islands
EUREKA's picture
EUREKA
Last seen: 2 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 1/20/09
Posts: 61
I include some pictures of the modifications done during the years on my C36 (1991). I sail mainly single handed so I tried to bring to,the cockpit all the lines. Only Cunningham remains at the mast. Hardware are Garhauer, Harken and Antal. Backstay is made out of spectra and I managed to run the SSB cable antenna inside the spectra back. Well between the core and the cover. Also a navtec hydraulic is fitted. The furling system was also replaced by the innovative facnor flat system. It really makes the jib works closer to the deck. Inner stay is also fitted so high aspect, Solent or storm sails can be hoisted. Harken single line reefing system is installed, bringing reefing lines to the cockpit. Genoa and main travellers are from Garhauer. Spinnaker barbers are also controlled from the cockpit. All the best and fair winds! <img src="/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/forum/image_20.jpg?itok=MqyfKFgg" width="220" height="165" alt="" class="image-medium" /><img src="/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/forum/image_15.jpg?itok=_SDgWZuR" width="165" height="220" alt="" class="image-medium" />
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Eladio Vallina

C-36 TR EUREKA II
Hull 1122 (1991)
Home port Barcelona (Spain).

ludo's picture
ludo
Last seen: 12 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 3/14/16
Posts: 79

This thread has been very helpful to help me with the look my deck should take. For archive here a great picture was posted on facebook, and a good way to bring 4 lines to the cockpit through the traveler.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214661716609783&set=p.10214661...
 

 

Adding it, since not always easy to find stuff back on facebook.

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Ludovic François
​Hotel Catalina - Catalina 36 Hull #883
Marina Del Rey, CA
LeslieTroyer's picture
LeslieTroyer
Last seen: 18 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 3/13/16
Posts: 403

I just finished leading every thing aft.  Quite a rats nest at the cabin top.   I think if I was to redo I put a winch at the mast and leave the hub halyard, both first reef lines, lazy jacks, at the mast.  Still leaves plenty on the cabin top.  

Youll love the straight traveler, I put gaurharuer (sp) last winter - what a difference!!!!

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Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo 
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor. 
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