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Pamaira
Last seen: 4 months 1 day ago
Joined: 6/21/18
Posts: 4
Asymmetric Spinnaker in Sock

Hi all, has any one set up an Asymetric spinnaker with a sock, or have they gone for a Gennerker
Paul

LeslieTroyer's picture
LeslieTroyer
Last seen: 4 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 3/13/16
Posts: 392

I have one in a sock only flown it a few times.  I use an ATN Tacker for the tack connection 

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Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo 
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor. 
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Chachere
Last seen: 3 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 528

Not too sure what the difference is between a Gennaker and an Asymemetic Spinnaker, but in any event both terms I believe refer to a big headsail where the tack is not attached to the forestay (this is a photo of ours:
.https://www.catalina36.org/sites/default/files/legacy/images/DSC_1751-X2.jpg )
We use it with a sock and a tackline (and an ATN tacker, like Les).  A tempermental beast at times, but fun when we can use it.  I've flown it a few times single-handed, but it takes some careful planning to hoist and douse (our  wireless autopilot is a big help for this).
 

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Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

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Parsons
Last seen: 3 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 6/2/16
Posts: 55

Our boat came with a UK Flasher (asymetrical spinnaker) in an ATN sock.  It's pretty easy to raise and trim an A-sail, particularly if you've experience with a symetrical spinnaker.  You are limited in wind and angle to about 60 - 150.  Anything approaching downwind collapses your A-sail behind the main - which is how you de-power and douse it, by the way.  Ours trims like a big, fat genoa.  It gives us boat speed, and looks pretty (see my avatar at left).

I believe gennaker refers to a larger genoa, with the luff on the roller furler, but I could be wrong.  Never tried sailing with one of those.

UK has an excellent set of guides for all types of sails, and trimming:  http://www.uksailmakers.com/encyclopedia/1-1-introduction/

I tried to follow their guidance on gybing the A-sail, and failed miserably 90% of the time. I did get it to fly out in front of the boat once, but it was light winds, and I had a full crew.  Not likely to repeat itself.  Getting a wrapped or hourglass spinnaker sucks in any condition.  Dousing wtih the sock and throwing it in front of the furled genoa is much easier and safer.

 

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John Parsons
"Water Music" 1999 Catalina 36 Mk II - Hull 1771
Tall Rig, Fin Keel
Bay City, MI, USA
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clennox
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 3/31/14
Posts: 212

I won't even try to gybe my A Spin. Since I single hand, I bring the sock down and start over on a different tack. Generally i just plan my run for several miles on one tack. One sheet at a time.

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Chuck Lennox
97 MKii Ventura Ca
Island Girl Hull #1611

Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 3 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 528

  Same here.  Indeed, I don't even keep the second sheet bent onto on the A Spin -- just more very long line to get tangled and possibly in the water.  Since I'm going to have to go forward anyway to flip the socked-in sail over to the other side of the forestay, I just move the sheet over to the other side at the same time.   One hourglass wrap around the forestay was enough for me!  (The racers among the C36/375 family may have a different approach, but we're not of that ilk).
   Indeed, I'm even more paranoid since the time I managed to wrap the spinnaker halyard into the jib one time while furling the latter  to pull into a harbor (even though the A-spin was not deployed or even on the deck), resulting in a (gulp!) climb to the masthead while on choppy seas to undo the resulting jam (could neither furl nor drop the jib at that point!) .
  Don't get me wrong; its a fun to fly the thing, but you do need to plan carefully every step, including what to do if things go wrong.   Another thing I've learned the hard way is to be mindful of the fact that while flying the A-Spin in a very broad reach you may be less aware (because of the wind angle) of the extent to which the wind speed has increased over time -- only to discover it as result of a sudden broach and the consequential excitement of a nearly unmanageable beast on the foredeck.   Keep an eye on windspeed and sock the thing in before it gets to that point -- it may be earlier than you think.. 

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Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

Saildad
Last seen: 4 months 31 min ago
Joined: 4/3/13
Posts: 37

Hey All
On Maverick we use an assymetrical spinnaker anytime we know we are going to be reaching from 90 to 140 degrees or so apparent. Often times on a longer race such as the Newport to Ensenada we use the drifter as a spinnaker stay sail. this set up really works!
Keep in mind I race with a crew that has been with me since I bought Maverick 6 years ago.
The tackline is connected to the anchor bail and we have a spliced continuos spin sheet. The turning blocks are tied to the aft cleats on both sides of the boat.
The pic is from a local race in the Santa Barbara Channel. Fast reaching!
PS. we can carry this combo up to about 20 knots apparent, up to close to 12kts of boat speed. after that things start to get a little squirrlley. But hey, fast is fun!
Capt Bill
Maverick
#1015 std rig fin keel
Winner fastest Catalina to finish Newport Beach to Ensenada 2015
finished 6 mins corrected behind the winner 2018
 

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EUREKA's picture
EUREKA
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 1/20/09
Posts: 61

Hi,

On Eureka II, we carry two North asymmetrical spis (G1&G2 88/108 sq m, 0,7/05 oz) both with snuffers. We have recently add a downwind staysail, attached 1m after the forestay, (No need of inner stay) that we fly together with the asymmetrical, also with the Genoa in some headings. This new small sail (17sq m) has not really improved speed, but in long distances, the average speed, yes. The staysail is "working" full time while the asymmetrical could sometimes not be perfectly trimmed. This small sail has also add. Quite a lot of stability downwind.

We use barber haulers for both, asymmetrical and Genoa in order to better control sail shapes and performances.

We race Eureka II under ORC rating system with quite good results.

All the best from the Mediterranean! 

(Sorry for my English)

 

--

Eladio Vallina

C-36 TR EUREKA II
Hull 1122 (1991)
Home port Barcelona (Spain).

Parsons's picture
Parsons
Last seen: 3 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 6/2/16
Posts: 55

Eladio, first your English is perfect, so no need to apologize. 
I'm curious about how your downwind staysail is attached at the tack - have you added a new fitting to the deck 1 m aft of the forestay?  Then hoist it on a spare fore halyard and fly it without a luff line, like a spinnaker?  Is this good for heavy wind speed as well as a storm sail?  Pictures would be great as I have not seen a cruising boat like the C36 modified like this in the US.

--
John Parsons
"Water Music" 1999 Catalina 36 Mk II - Hull 1771
Tall Rig, Fin Keel
Bay City, MI, USA
EUREKA's picture
EUREKA
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 1/20/09
Posts: 61

Hi John,

Yes, we have added a new fitting  127 cm after the forestay, it is also used to attach the lifelines. The boat is also equipped with an inner stay were we fly a Solent/Yankee (105) for heavy weather. In the enclosed picture you can also see the attachments close to the bow. The staysail is just hoisted like the asymmetrical with no stay.

Defintly is NOT to be used as a storm sail! It is built in a quite light cloth similar to the Code 0. Downwind is effective from 8/10 TWS, For beam reach  starts to be effective from a little less wind.

We hoist the staysail with the second genoa halyard. The staysail has a 8mm luft rope, the staysail is installed with a very small ronstan 60 continuos furling system, so we can furl and unfurl the sail and state how performances improves or not.

We added this sail recently so I do not have pictures yet. When discussing with the sailmaker (North) he explained that the staysail could be designed either for downwinds or for beam reach (60/90 AWA). In fact pure racing boats have two staysails.  We went for a mix design that allows to use it from 150/60 AWA.

Some 4 years ago we did a complete refit of Eureka's mast, and we added a new furling system from Facnor (FD) that allows to set the tack very low.

I know our Catalina's are cruising boats and personally I have done that for years! We owned Eureka since new (1991), but we have founded that with good sails, reducing weight (the boat not the crew) folding propeller and a nice clean smooth bottom...You can have a lot of fun racing her.  The ORC handicap system, gave nice figures to the C36, and she is able to very decently defens her rating. 

All the best!

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Eladio Vallina

C-36 TR EUREKA II
Hull 1122 (1991)
Home port Barcelona (Spain).

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